If they end the R18 line...

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motoring

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Might we think they would ever increase in value, say if production ends in 1 to 3 years? Wonder if one in a create would be worth much down the road. Or for that matter what condition the bike would be in many years enhance if in a create?
 
It’s possible but I doubt it. Don’t think we have enough time and petrol will be unavailable (probably). Early 1970’s bikes like Kawasaki Z1’s are genuine classics now with prices to match but 50 years have gone by. At least the R18 is very nice to look at as a display piece.
 
No gas…reminds of a show I saw though thinking maybe they did not make it a series. About a place and time where the govt was removing gas powered vechilces such as motorcycles from citizens.
 
The R18 line will likely end up like the R1200c line and have its own forum page like www.chromeheads.org ;)

Maybe BMW will even relent and release the DVD service manual to its customers as well if the R18 line discontinues. Hope runneth eternal.

Mike
 
motoring said:
Might we think they would ever increase in value, say if production ends in 1 to 3 years? Wonder if one in a create would be worth much down the road. Or for that matter what condition the bike would be in many years enhance if in a create?
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Take a shortcut if increasing value is your thing. Here’s a couple to get the juices flowing.
 

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Increase in value is not a requirement :).

It did though get me thinking, just a moment, on what it cost BMW to make say a R18 base model. We, well I, have been told the Dealer(s) are losing money selling the base models. As we know, a Dealer losing money might not mean BMW does (at least that is my thinking…maybe wrong). There is of course design/startup/parts/labor…etc cost some of which only get recouped by BMW when X number of bikes are sold over a period of time/years.

It is an over simplified view of things though we are after all dealing with just two wheels, frame, lights, engine, and tech linked together by chips and wires plus of course brakes, fuel and oil. Just sort of wonder…are bikes akin to Trucks? Seems auto manufacturers make a boat load of $ off Truck builds vs other 4 wheel autos they may make.
 
motoring said:
Increase in value is not a requirement :).

It did though get me thinking, just a moment, on what it cost BMW to make say a R18 base model. We, well I, have been told the Dealer(s) are losing money selling the base models. As we know, a Dealer losing money might not mean BMW does (at least that is my thinking…maybe wrong). There is of course design/startup/parts/labor…etc cost some of which only get recouped by BMW when X number of bikes are sold over a period of time/years.

It is an over simplified view of things though we are after all dealing with just two wheels, frame, lights, engine, and tech linked together by chips and wires plus of course brakes, fuel and oil. Just sort of wonder…are bikes akin to Trucks? Seems auto manufacturers make a boat load of $ off Truck builds vs other 4 wheel autos they may make.
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Dealers are LOSING money selling base models? I'm confused as to why dealers would be losing money selling ANY models. At the price range of BMW's, I'm pretty sure there's a hefty markup and dealer profit margin made for every bike sold. Otherwise, why bother remaining in business as a BMW motorrad dealer if all they're going to do is be a loss-leader of base model bikes?

I know servicing bikes is the big cash-cow of dealerships, but absent that, sales still has to justify its existence. Otherwise it would be more profitable to simply become a licensed motorrad service center, minus sales.

Is there anyone who works at a dealership who can confirm/deny this? I'm sure the community is curious to read the tea leaves on this one.

Mike
 
I don't know the metrics (numbers), I only know the dealer said they were losing $ selling the bike. If it listed for say 20k and buyer net cost in mid 11k then that is a big difference. I am thinking, like any dealership bike or car, the powers that be can dedicate the dealer take a min of X, Y or Z models.
Don't know if bike shops are like car lots though with cars it cost the dealer to have the car on the lot and that is additional cost each day not sold....if I follow that correctly.

Can a dealer car or bike shop lose $ on something that does not sell at retail price and in time gets marked down to a point where they lose $ on item sold...I would think so. Though what the heck, I could be wrong.
 
Keehn said:
Dealers are LOSING money selling base models? I'm confused as to why dealers would be losing money selling ANY models. At the price range of BMW's, I'm pretty sure there's a hefty markup and dealer profit margin made for every bike sold. Otherwise, why bother remaining in business as a BMW motorrad dealer if all they're going to do is be a loss-leader of base model bikes?

I know servicing bikes is the big cash-cow of dealerships, but absent that, sales still has to justify its existence. Otherwise it would be more profitable to simply become a licensed motorrad service center, minus sales.

Is there anyone who works at a dealership who can confirm/deny this? I'm sure the community is curious to read the tea leaves on this one.

Mike
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Don’t work at a dealers but have known two managers of big Honda dealerships for a long time. Now both closed BTW. Don‘t think BMW will be any different. They can make as little as £80 on the sale of a new bike. That’s right. £80. Which is why so many dealers are going out of business. If you think that any warranty work (post sale) might have to be paid for by the dealer NOT manufacturer then it also explains why the aftercare can often be so woeful.

For example. How much shop time & money could it take to sort out an intermittent electrical glitch on just one fully loaded TC or Goldwing? Say your beautiful chromed Fishtail exhaust picked up a long scratch being moved about in the shop at PDI and you want/demand it gets replaced? Kerr-Ching. What they need is volume sales of reliable bikes and satisfied customers to come back for servicing and extras (helmets, jackets, accessories etc). Home servicing will not work for them, that’s why the industry doesn’t want us doing it.

I’m as guilty of this as anyone but the reality is if we all continue to avoid the dealers, they don’t get the money in, they don’t have money to pay decent wages for decent technicians (happy in their jobs) and the quality of their work and our customer experience suffers in equal measure. Downward spiral. If you are lucky enough to have a good dealer, use them or lose them as the saying goes.
 
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I'd expect that these will be similar to the R1200C. They'll have a loyal following but won't be "collectable". Who can really predict though.
 
Rufus said:
Don’t work at a dealers but have known two managers of big Honda dealerships for a long time. Now both closed BTW. Don‘t think BMW will be any different. They can make as little as £80 on the sale of a new bike. That’s right. £80. Which is why so many dealers are going out of business. If you think that any warranty work (post sale) might have to be paid for by the dealer NOT manufacturer then it also explains why the aftercare can often be so woeful.

For example. How much shop time & money could it take to sort out an intermittent electrical glitch on just one fully loaded TC or Goldwing? Say your beautiful chromed Fishtail exhaust picked up a long scratch being moved about in the shop at PDI and you want/demand it gets replaced? Kerr-Ching. What they need is volume sales of reliable bikes and satisfied customers to come back for servicing and extras (helmets, jackets, accessories etc). Home servicing will not work for them, that’s why the industry doesn’t want us doing it.

I’m as guilty of this as anyone but the reality is if we all continue to avoid the dealers, they don’t get the money in, they don’t have money to pay decent wages for decent technicians (happy in their jobs) and the quality of their work and our customer experience suffers in equal measure. Downward spiral. If you are lucky enough to have a good dealer, use them or lose them as the saying goes.
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Wow, I didn't realize the profit margins were THAT little for Honda dealers... Makes me wonder why anyone would bother investing money to become a dealer at all with Honda if they could open a roach coach and sell tacos at the sidewalk with a larger profit margin (and probably more annual income, depending on city).

As for the end of the R18 line and "collectability", IMO, like I said before, they'll end up like the r1200c. A niche BMW with a fervent fanbase (us) who don't like taking off a metric-ton of "tupperware" just to do basic maintenance, a lower riding height, and a proper cruiser.

Mike
 
Rufus said:
Don’t work at a dealers but have known two managers of big Honda dealerships for a long time. Now both closed BTW. Don‘t think BMW will be any different. They can make as little as £80 on the sale of a new bike. That’s right. £80. Which is why so many dealers are going out of business. If you think that any warranty work (post sale) might have to be paid for by the dealer NOT manufacturer then it also explains why the aftercare can often be so woeful.

For example. How much shop time & money could it take to sort out an intermittent electrical glitch on just one fully loaded TC or Goldwing? Say your beautiful chromed Fishtail exhaust picked up a long scratch being moved about in the shop at PDI and you want/demand it gets replaced? Kerr-Ching. What they need is volume sales of reliable bikes and satisfied customers to come back for servicing and extras (helmets, jackets, accessories etc). Home servicing will not work for them, that’s why the industry doesn’t want us doing it.

I’m as guilty of this as anyone but the reality is if we all continue to avoid the dealers, they don’t get the money in, they don’t have money to pay decent wages for decent technicians (happy in their jobs) and the quality of their work and our customer experience suffers in equal measure. Downward spiral. If you are lucky enough to have a good dealer, use them or lose them as the saying goes.
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Was quoted $736 to adjust the valves. Fk that...
 
Dealers are required to take a minimum of 1or 2 of every model. Manufacturers will also ship bikes, say force ship, but they will carry the bikes for a term. So, the dealer isn't on the hook for (floor plan/interest). I am sure on heavy discount models, that the manufacturer, gives them a spiff, for moving them. My dealer also gets freight, setup, doc fees, doc stamps. All that adds up to 1k. The dealer IS gonna get theirs, one way or another.
 
pbosik said:
So was I, that included the costly valve cover gaskets @ $175 each. Not all dealers quote them in the estimate. I found another dealer that quoted me approx $300 for it.
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News like this makes me think of selling this bike. I love it, and it was allot of bike for the money, but I don't really trust it, and this service BS is just stupid. I DO NOT like being indirectly bullied to use their dealer network. I am fing PISSED that you still cannot get a service manual. I still have my trusty Honda Valkyrie...2014 second gen...I'll just buy another Jap bike: reliable and no stupid games.
 
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