Hard starting

[Ulrich]

Not sure I followed the first bit but did you mean you use the red emergency kill switch whilst the bike still rolling, i.e, moving?
The way I stop my engine is by pressing the power button situated on the right handlebar control cluster. By then I have already entered my garage, came to full stop and gear box in neutral. It works. The only thing I have not done at this point is put the side stand down as I like to keep the engine running on idle for about 5 seconds in the upright position. This is to do with an old habit earlier boxer engines had to smoke a bit on the left cylinder due to small amounts of oil entering the cylinder head when the bike was left on the side stand and then switched off.

Add: Kickstand down and a few seconds of idling ... then pushing the 'Ignition' button to turn it off and I have almost never issues.

I have been reading the previous posts and IMO you are all way over thinking his ... some of these procedures sound like 'The Kickstart Procedures' from way back ... open the pet cock ... run 2 complete circles around the bike ... pump the kick start lever until the piston is in 'compression' ... then stomp on it while snapping the throttle .. well you all get the idea.
These are ECU controlled engines that 'learn' the mixture as they go along ... I have very few times had the 'No Start' issue ... and when, it would crank right over on the second button push. Every so often when the weather gets colder (or warmer) the problem seems to happen more often ... then I use my GS-911 and reset the 'Learned Values' ... and the bike will start great .. yes I will have a $hitty gas mileage the first tank or 2 ... but the problem will go away ... just my 2¢

 

[BAD MIKE USA]

I stop, leave the bike in 1st gear, touch the power button to shut off. I disconnected my kickstand switch for when parking outdoors, I can use engine power to move enough to get the kickstand exactly where I want it when parked. Then I press the power button. I never use the kill switch.

 

[Pork Rind]

In the case of youtube reviewers, that seems to be universally true of the "5 things I hate about my new diamond ring" type people expecting to drive clicks/views. There were a handful of them (>= 100k-200k subscriber channels) who got free bikes in exchange for keeping them for a couple of years and doing basically paid promotions of the bike while subtly hating on it.

The R18 was widely hated by the youtube crowd for all the wrong reasons. They hated it because it wasn't a Harley, and spent little time with it understanding any real shortcomings. The only real thing to hate on in my experience is the suspension, which can be easily resolved. This hard/no start issue we are discussing has a reliable workaround so it's not the case where BMW failed. For me, it's more about this being an easy annoyance problem that BMW can acknowledge and solve if we can root-cause it for them. From my testing, and the reproducibility of the issue, it's not the case of "oh that's a characteristic of this bike" flat rate mechanic, warranty aversion advice. Bike characteristics rarely show up en masse at 3k miles. Back in the day Ford Pinto cars had engines and interiors that overheated when rear ended at any mileage

The Cody Jones, Her Two Wheels and Adam Sandoval's of YouTube, IMHO were more HD shills than social influencers, that BMW tried to get free PR out of, while compensated with in BMW bikes. I'll be the first to admit my HD Sport Glide was a fun bike, but being a pilot and plane owner and coming from a Rotax powered Boxer 4 cylinder Light Sport Airplane, and working on it extensively, being my plane was Experimental Light Sport Aircraft, it somewhat swayed me towards at least giving Boxer motors a try, the first a R18 100 year anniversary, later a R18 B. HTW replaced her R18B with a Road Glide, Cody Jones replaced R18 B and R18 Classic with a HD Low Rider ST, and I've no idea what Adam Sandoval replaced his BMW's with or if he even still has them. I guess their videos purpose were to get people out to test ride the R18's. IMHO, the R18 bagger and TC models have an absolutely superior suspension with a very plush ride. They are suitable for glass polished interstate travel as well as poorer condition, less well maintained rough 2 lane highways. I'd much rather ride a R18 on portions of Historic Route 66 in AZ on a R18 than a Street Glide or Road Glide, but that's just me. BMW tried to get influencers to try their bikes, but I suspect the politics at HD the past 4 years got them taking some heat for riding other brands of motorcycles. BMW never managed to approach or get the Two Lane Life guys to try a BMW R18, to my knowledge. Probably not a big enough following or subscriber base.

But this funky cold start problem, on a German bikes, just seems BMW could have done a better job, it's really irritating that it doesn't fire right up on the first 2 engine revolutions. When it doesn't fire right up like it's supposed to, it introduces doubt as to whether it will fire up again on the 2nd attempt. I expect starting troubles on bikes with carburetors. I expect flawless starts with fuel injected computer controlled engines that have a million parameters monitored to perfection for fueling and spark and ignition timing maps in their software.

 

[bdalameda]

All this sounds like typical behavior when the fuel pressure bleeds off after sitting and cooling off. When you hit the starter immediately after powering up it may take a couple of seconds for the fuel pressure to buildup. That is why on the second attempt the engine starts. As an experiment, for those concerned about this, when you power up the bike, bump the start button without starting the bike and then wait a few seconds and then start the bike. I believe the engine will start right away. I've seen this same behavior on many different fuel injected vehicles due to low fuel pressure when first starting.

 

[Anibal]

As an experiment, for those concerned about this, when you power up the bike, bump the start button without starting the bike and then wait a few seconds and then start the bike. I believe the engine will start right away. I've seen this same behavior on many different fuel injected vehicles due to low fuel pressure when first starting.

I may be a very lucky owner but my R18B never misses a beat, she starts first time every time. Could be luck or methodology and this is why I am saying this.
1-I never switch the bike off using the red kill switch.
2- When I switch the ignition on, I wait for the bike to run its diagnostic. On the B and TC you see this happening on the TFT and it takes about 4 seconds. Whilst doing this the bike will make all sort of little noises and then the TFT comes alive. After that,I press the clutch and the on switch and she will grunt to life.

Maybe this process prepares the bike to fire up, i.e, building up fuel pressure etc like you’re suggesting and I also believe is the correct way to fire up a modern computer driven engine. I do the same on my car and boat and never have had any issues, even on freezing weather.

 

[Petrus]

But this funky cold start problem,

imo this thing is not a thing more than cultivated anekdotals starting (pun intended) with overfilling the gas tank.

I point to jerrycans.
Yes, thát is a thing. A úser thing.
Next everything is a confirmation leading to the myth of starting issues.

I find it all particularly funny in the perspective of many years of classic MotoGuzzis. Basically the same layout as BMW boxers, just a large V-twin instead of flat twin.
They had a car type starter motor, Bendix and all, on the flywheel ring and a húge battery twice the size of the R18 one. Évery start was an adventure. Mind, they always started so no starting myth but still an adventure on winter mornings with a ccccóld engine. That ssssloooow very first compression stroke and then the starter motor getting up to just enough more speed. Again, still reliable starting but the cold reduced cca and the nigh frozen oil asked for more cca. During one particularly hard winter I put a small electric stove on a timer under the sump.

Moral of this story is that first sometimes almost ´hesitating´ engine revolution of the R18; for me a nostalgic flash back. I lóve it. For me it is a feature just like the ´rock´-ing idle in said mode and ditto pick up from low revs.
When the original battery reaches end of life, will go new LiFe (again pun intended). It simply is better battery tech but I do hope that first ´hesitation´ remains.

 

[bdalameda]

I may be a very lucky owner but my R18B never misses a beat, she starts first time every time. Could be luck or methodology and this is why I am saying this.
1-I never switch the bike off using the red kill switch.
2- When I switch the ignition on, I wait for the bike to run its diagnostic. On the B and TC you see this happening on the TFT and it takes about 4 seconds. Whilst doing this the bike will make all sort of little noises and then the TFT comes alive. After that,I press the clutch and the on switch and she will grunt to life.

Maybe this process prepares the bike to fire up, i.e, building up fuel pressure etc like you’re suggesting and I also believe is the correct way to fire up a modern computer driven engine. I do the same on my car and boat and never have had any issues, even on freezing weather.

I believe you are basically doing what I was talking about. Most fuel injected bikes when powered on, run the fuel pump to build fuel pressure for the injectors. Some makers have the fuel pump run when first turning on and others have it start running the moment that the starter button is pushed. Usually if you listen carefully you can hear the fuel pump run for a couple of seconds and then stop when turning on the power.

 

[Petrus]

2- When I switch the ignition on, I wait for the bike to run its diagnostic.

Maybe it is my age but it would not have occured to me that one would not.

 

[Anibal]

I believe you are basically doing what I was talking about. Most fuel injected bikes when powered on, run the fuel pump to build fuel pressure for the injectors. Some makers have the fuel pump run when first turning on and others have it start running the moment that the starter button is pushed. Usually if you listen carefully you can hear the fuel pump run for a couple of seconds and then stop when turning on the power.

Yup, you can hear this humming noise when you switch the ignition on which I believe is the fuel pump indeed.

 

[emgarciax]

I've tried waiting for up to 30 seconds before hitting the starter and nothing.
I'd say I have series of days when it starts at once, and at other times needs the second chance.
This only happens on cold starts.
I'm going to change to 93 octane (w/ethanol) and see if it's related.

 

[u20251009]

@bdalameda agreed it lines up exactly with fuel pressure bleed off and BMW's FI logic on when and how much fuel to spray.

@Petrus why would this not be a problem if you don't get the bike up to temperature? Mine is 100% reproducible at any fuel load.

I have not yet tested very cold weather to see if the fuel pressure bleed off is reduced eliminating this issue. I suppose winter blend fuel could offset and invalidate that test.

What my testing has ruled out:
- waiting xx seconds after powering on to use the starter
- fuel load
- fuel type (ethanol blend/non-ethanol)
- fuel octane rating
- injector cleaner
- battery
- DWA settings
- sequence of killing the bike (power button vs. red button)
- edit: letting it crank for a few seconds then holding the throttle wide open

Does anyone have empirical test data or a contact at BMW that can tell us what the FI logic is to spray fuel?

edit: I would guess that a FI conditional logic change would make this problem go away

for (int i=0; i < 3; i++)
{
if (starter_engaged > 3 && RPM < 100)
{
injector_pulse = true;
sleep(3);
}
}