Poll about Final Drive (Bevel Gear) Oil Spillage on the rim and tyre

[kate_brett]

First noticed Aug 2023. Dealer cleaned and inspected. Told to observe. Informed them in Oct 2023 still occurring. Told that they needed “ special tool” to be made before could attempt service. Called by dealer in early Jan 2024 that “special tool” yet to arrive ( from Germany/Australia ? ). Still waiting. Fabulous customer service by BMW. NOT blaming dealer. They have been good. JMac74 - have you had your problem with leakage fixed yet ?

 

[DaveO]

First noticed Aug 2023. Dealer cleaned and inspected. Told to observe. Informed them in Oct 2023 still occurring. Told that they needed “ special tool” to be made before could attempt service. Called by dealer in early Jan 2024 that “special tool” yet to arrive ( from Germany/Australia ? ). Still waiting. Fabulous customer service by BMW. NOT blaming dealer. They have been good. JMac74 - have you had your problem with leakage fixed yet ?

Where are you in Aus? I had mine done in Brisbane in August 23, they inspected it told me the seal had gone and booked me in for warranty, I did have to wait for the seal to arrive but no mention of a ”special tool”.
Before and after.

 

[Keehn]

These are sealed units, aren't they? This problem sounds eerily familiar to the old r1200c final drive seal leak issue, except the leak on the r1200c could end up in catastrophic failure of the final drive unit....

The issue was that, BMW refill specs were such that, when the air expanded in the sealed final drive unit, it had nowhere to go except the weakest point, which was the output seal to the tire itself. Over time, heated air would pneumatically press the output seal outwards until one day...BAM! total loss of all final drive fluid, and total loss of the final drive unit itself!

The solution that the Chromeheads forum came up with was to NOT fill the final drive to the capacity that BMW laid out in the service manual (remember those??? ). Instead, we would fill to the BOTTOM of the screw threads, not until the lube drips out. I went onto https://www.chromeheads.org/ to see if I could find the posts talking about the final drive fixes, but they've since gone into the old archives (it's been a minute since I owned my first r1200c , and I'm going completely from memory here).

The gears splashed the gear lube onto themselves regardless of the lesser quantity of gear lube, and nobody in the community reporting any ill effects from the reduced fill amount.

I'm wondering if history is repeating itself here....

Mike

 

[kate_brett]

Where are you in Aus? I had mine done in Brisbane in August 23, they inspected it told me the seal had gone and booked me in for warranty, I did have to wait for the seal to arrive but no mention of a ”special tool”.
Before and after.

Melbourne. They keep mentioning “ Special tool” yet to be made / procured.

 

[Ulrich]

These are sealed units, aren't they? This problem sounds eerily familiar to the old r1200c final drive seal leak issue, except the leak on the r1200c could end up in catastrophic failure of the final drive unit....

The issue was that, BMW refill specs were such that, when the air expanded in the sealed final drive unit, it had nowhere to go except the weakest point, which was the output seal to the tire itself. Over time, heated air would pneumatically press the output seal outwards until one day...BAM! total loss of all final drive fluid, and total loss of the final drive unit itself!

The solution that the Chromeheads forum came up with was to NOT fill the final drive to the capacity that BMW laid out in the service manual (remember those??? ). Instead, we would fill to the BOTTOM of the screw threads, not until the lube drips out. I went onto https://www.chromeheads.org/ to see if I could find the posts talking about the final drive fixes, but they've since gone into the old archives (it's been a minute since I owned my first r1200c , and I'm going completely from memory here).

The gears splashed the gear lube onto themselves regardless of the lesser quantity of gear lube, and nobody in the community reporting any ill effects from the reduced fill amount.

I'm wondering if history is repeating itself here....

Mike

That is 100% what I did on my 'ChromeHead' ... and never had an issue after.

 

[Crna Gora]

I am having a small rusting spots on the reverse lever on my BMW R18. As far as oil leakage I do not have this problems for now.

 

[Keehn]

That is 100% what I did on my 'ChromeHead' ... and never had an issue after.

Yeah,

I'm thinking when I do the final drive fluid change on Alcina next, I'm going to refer back to my old Chromehead days and underfill the final drive by a little bit.

BMW calls for 210ml. I don't see any harm in underfilling around 190ml. That gives the air that much more room to compress in during operation.

Mike

 

[Ulrich]

Yeah,

I'm thinking when I do the final drive fluid change on Alcina next, I'm going to refer back to my old Chromehead days and underfill the final drive by a little bit.

BMW calls for 210ml. I don't see any harm in underfilling around 190ml. That gives the air that much more room to compress in during operation.

Mike

I agree .. on the 1200C it only took @-30 ml to make it stop seeping ... it didn't weep when I got her, but I changed all the fluids after a short while and then she did start seeping ... actually so bad there were stripes on the tire. Then I took a syringe and drew 30 ml out and after that, absolutely noting ... then I put 20 000 miles on hat rear end and had 0 problems

 

[McGyver]

Had mine for a year and 1/2 before I could ride it Got the miles on it for 600 mile service . No problem noted. Took it in for annual and mentioned this had them check it out again. Yep leaking. Of course, my bike is out of warranty... Good dealership they are gonna try and get it done thru anyway as they have full service records and its low mileage due to not being ridden. We'll see

 

[BobW]

Had mine for a year and 1/2 before I could ride it Got the miles on it for 600 mile service . No problem noted. Took it in for annual and mentioned this had them check it out again. Yep leaking. Of course, my bike is out of warranty... Good dealership they are gonna try and get it done thru anyway as they have full service records and its low mileage due to not being ridden. We'll see

Good luck, BMW dealers can ask the Mothership for a Good Will repair for you and it sounds like your shop is on top of it. Please let us know how things play out.

 

[1911tex]

My thoughts on the final drive fluid leak. The book says drain and refill at 210ml. Could the problem be that in the process of draining the old drive fluid, that enough residue fluid would remain on internal surfaces and crevices to make a 210ml refill an over fill? Question: How long do you let the old drive fluid drain....? Until you see the last few drips? Wait an hour or two? Overnight? I have no clue how critical the 210ml maximum fluid level is. Is factory recommended 210ml fill take into account remaining residue? After refilling with 210ml, could the residue make it 211ml, 215ml, 220ml?

Perhaps when the outside temp is 50F degrees vs. 95F degrees, the draining residue after a 20 minute draining would differ? Draining a cold vs. hot fluid make a difference? Maybe going back to post #48 is a good idea?

I know that changing a car engine oil there is a dipstick leeway between low level and full, but warnings just don't overfill. No dipstick in the final drive! My own experience when taking our car to the dealer for oil/filter changes there is typically a slight over the full mark dipstick level. They quickly drain until a few drips, plug it back and fill with book required 4 quarts or 5 with filter...just wonder how much old oil is still in the crankcase vs. draining overnight or crevices where old oil will accumulate regardless of drain time?

I guess the final question is "how critical is the final drive fluid level of 210ml"? Does 210ml take into account remaining internal old fluid residue and crevices? Maybe the 210ml is what a factory assembly line new final drive requires as opposed to replacement of old fluids?

Again, just thoughts......

EDIT: I guess the simplest way to not overfill your final drive if you have no indication of leakage....carefully drain the old fluid into a measuring container...if you drain 200ml., only refill 200ml. with fresh fluid. If you refill with 210ml., of course the drive will be overfilled...not good. Look at it in long term over several final drive fluid changes.....you could be overfilling as in this example...every time 10ml times the number of fluid changes. REALLY NOT GOOD!

Makes me wonder if dealer final drive/transmission changes take this into consideration ???

 

[oldslodog]

Went on a hard hundred miler, noticed the dreaded oil streaks on rear tire. I just purchased with 1950 miles and now at 3000 miles. I cleaned everything up and changed the gear lube with 210 ml. oil. It appears the driveshaft seal is bad. I have heard to drop the oil level? I have heard they replace the entire unit? I know the dealers are slow around here, {150 miles closest dealer} and hate to lose the riding season. The problem is warranty runs out next month. Has anyone actually dropped the fluid level and eliminated the leak? Has anyone had the assembly replaced? I am a retired master mechanic and have no problem going after this reseal of the unit, but the seals alone appear to be about 125.00 plus tax and lube. I really like to ride and don't want to lose my riding time. what would you guys do?

 

[Rufus]

Before you go thinking the worst, are you 100% sure it’s gear oil and not just assembly paste that over time has slowly crept (when hot) and due to higher sustained speeds eventually found its way to where you can see it and it’s flung onto the rim? I went down the motorway on a very hot day (well for the UK anyway) a while ago and got home to find some fling. I cleaned the area thoroughly and have seen nothing similar since. Rem47 posted comprehensive photos half way through this thread showing the phenomenon.

 

[oldslodog]

Bike has been washed and re-rode to same fresh gear oil trail from prop-shaft seal. I was going to try fluid change again with less amount. This also was previously posted on the matter. With one month left on the warranty I have to figure it out quick.

 

[BobW]

Bike has been washed and re-rode to same fresh gear oil trail from prop-shaft seal. I was going to try fluid change again with less amount. This also was previously posted on the matter. With one month left on the warranty I have to figure it out quick.

Not sure why you are having to figure this out quick? You are under warranty, take some photos showing it continues to weep (more for record keeping if needed) and then let the dealer inspect and repair as needed.

If you were out of warranty I would bet with the low mileage that asking for a "Good Will" repair would have been well honored at least at my long time shop.

If for some reason they didn't go forth with a warranty claim the issue would be on the work order while still covered and you would also have your historical photographs to show the ongoing problem and you could still request a warranty repair after it expired as it was documented and not acted on when they could/should have replaced the seal.

Anyway, don't let the cart get way out in front of the horse with this. It's a simple repair and at least with my shop with the few claims I've had over many bikes through the years BMW has been very good overall to deal with.

Bottom line; Book it in sooner than later and if they can't do it before the month is out either bring it by so they can at least see the leaking and document it on the service request and/or correspond by email with the photos attached so a timeline is not in dispute for fixing it on their dime.

Good luck

 

[Didi]

Went on a hard hundred miler, noticed the dreaded oil streaks on rear tire. I just purchased with 1950 miles and now at 3000 miles. I cleaned everything up and changed the gear lube with 210 ml. oil. It appears the driveshaft seal is bad. I have heard to drop the oil level? I have heard they replace the entire unit? I know the dealers are slow around here, {150 miles closest dealer} and hate to lose the riding season. The problem is warranty runs out next month. Has anyone actually dropped the fluid level and eliminated the leak? Has anyone had the assembly replaced? I am a retired master mechanic and have no problem going after this reseal of the unit, but the seals alone appear to be about 125.00 plus tax and lube. I really like to ride and don't want to lose my riding time. what would you guys do?

Go for warranty without doubt

 

[1911tex]

Go for warranty without doubt

+1...don't understand the hesitation...once the problem is recorded by BMW while in warrantee, no matter how long the dealer takes to correct the problem after the warrantee expires, you are covered like BobW states in post #56. Note my post #52 above. I let my fluids drain overnight. As a side note, I also hand rotate the rear wheel 1/4 turn a few times while draining the final drive on my Kern-Stabi lift, to let every possible drop of old fluid out. It is obvious you can't get 100% of old fluid out. When you add 210 ml. of oil, the old undrained residue is added to the new. I don't believe the final drive will fail if you add 209 ml.. I do not know if 210 ml. of BMW recommendation compensates for any un-drained residual???

I have noted somewhere on this forum that some folks have drained the factory filled final drive and measured the amount drained at the first 600 mile recommendation and posted only 200 ml.? Could someone verify that?

EDIT: Just found a video with the 200ml drained factory final drive fluid; I remember another but so far cannot find it:

 

[oldslodog]

I guess I did not realize this. Record the problem for now and ride on for the season?

 

[BobW]

I guess I did not realize this. Record the problem for now and ride on for the season?

NO. Go to the shop while under warranty and if that is not feasible correspond by email with photos so you have an established timeline and "paper trail" and get their assurance it will be covered as a reported "warranty claim". Do not wait for the clock to run out and then say you want retroactive consideration. It will make a simple situation needlessly complicated.

Best of luck.

 

[oldslodog]

called the dealer to record warranty differential/final drive leak with one month of standard warranty remaining. I also drew out 30 mils. of lube and took on another hundred miler yesterday. No oil leaks so far. I will run it some more today.