Gr8adv
Well-known member
Oh damn Dave. Just damn.
-
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Transmission issue
- Discussion starter dwendell
- Start date
Only Big Poodles
Member
This is terrible news. I'm sorry to hear it.
Does your state (Washington, right?) have a motor vehicle lemon law? In CT, the lemon law says that repeated repairs to a late-model vehicle, even if they're covered by warranty, constitutes a lemon, and the owner can demand either a new vehicle or a substantial credit (total value) toward the purchase of another model. The law here is a 3-strike rule--the 3rd repair triggers it. I had a 2012 MINI Countryman that was ruled a lemon, and my local dealer ponied up a new car. MINI USA (a BMW product) ate the cost.
BMW is a premium brand and should be anxious to protect the reputation of a bike they've spent a lot to develop and market. You have nothing to lose by asking for a different bike instead of a 3rd transmission for your current machine.
The only potential glitch is, of course, the sidecar. But, BMW hasn't said that having one voids the warranty--right?
At this rate, you're done riding for the year if you have to wait for a new tranny to ship and be installed. If they were to give you a new bike from their inventory, you'd be back in business--and you could be a test mule for BMW to see if the sidecar is the culprit.
One last question: do you have confidence in the techs who installed the new tranny? A new transmission failing like that sounds like it wasn't installed properly.
Good luck!
Does your state (Washington, right?) have a motor vehicle lemon law? In CT, the lemon law says that repeated repairs to a late-model vehicle, even if they're covered by warranty, constitutes a lemon, and the owner can demand either a new vehicle or a substantial credit (total value) toward the purchase of another model. The law here is a 3-strike rule--the 3rd repair triggers it. I had a 2012 MINI Countryman that was ruled a lemon, and my local dealer ponied up a new car. MINI USA (a BMW product) ate the cost.
BMW is a premium brand and should be anxious to protect the reputation of a bike they've spent a lot to develop and market. You have nothing to lose by asking for a different bike instead of a 3rd transmission for your current machine.
The only potential glitch is, of course, the sidecar. But, BMW hasn't said that having one voids the warranty--right?
At this rate, you're done riding for the year if you have to wait for a new tranny to ship and be installed. If they were to give you a new bike from their inventory, you'd be back in business--and you could be a test mule for BMW to see if the sidecar is the culprit.
One last question: do you have confidence in the techs who installed the new tranny? A new transmission failing like that sounds like it wasn't installed properly.
Good luck!
Gr8adv
Well-known member
My two pennies here. I am sure Dave will respond.
1) he is in excellent hands with the techs.
2) Regarding the lemon law. I too thought about that. Then I remembered what it took to get a quality sidecar installed and wired properly... there is a lot of quality work done to that tug.
Arg.
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Yikes. It sure feels like it's related to the rig. I really hope that you had an unlucky transmission failure, and then an equally unlucky botched installation of a new transmission. At this point, I'm afraid, the failures seem more a symptom than the disease.
dwendell
Member
- Discussion starter
- #25
There's a LOT to unpack in what you said Only Big Poodles. I'll try to respond to all of it.
First -- Yes there is a lemon law here in WA, and according to that law I already have a right to file a lemon law claim because it took more than 2 months for them to replace the first transmission. But I decided to give the dealership a chance to fix it, and express patience with the fact that the R18 is so new, and I knew it was going to take a bit to get a new transmission shipped from Berlin. Having said that, since the new one failed in less than 28 miles, I'm insistent with the dealership that THEY put a bunch of test ride miles on it before I get it back this time. And if the third one fails as well, THEN it's time to file a claim.
Second -- Although I could be wrong here, BMW NA hasn't questioned the sidecar as a possible source for the failures. But if they do, there will be LOTS of words exchanged between them and I. BMW has quite a history with folks attaching sidecars to their motorcycles despite the fact that BMW itself stopped offering them. When the regional BMW rep viewed the bike the first time (back in June) the topic of the sidecar never really came up, despite the fact that he saw it attached to the bike. He simply told the dealership to order a new transmission. Given that the second failure occurred with only 28 miles on it, I have a hard time believing that they will question it this time either.
Third -- I wouldn't say I'm done for the year. In my particular area of WA we ride all year. So even if it takes until November to get a new transmission, there's still plenty of time to ride. (Western WA gets the occasional snow storm, but it's almost always gone by noon the next day.)
Fourth -- Yes, I have a great deal of confidence in the techs at South Sound BMW. Having said that, I am well aware that BMW had a problem about 25 years ago where there was an issue with the alignment of the transmission to the driveshaft, because of the frame. I even asked the Service Manager if this was a possible cause. He said he didn't think so, but it was a topic worth investigating. His opinion, after seeing all the metal chunks in the trans fluid, was that the metal hardening they're doing on the internal of the gear box, may not be adequate. But, who really knows, besides the folks in Berlin.
All I can do at this point is wait and see what happens when they finally repair it, and THEY put some miles on it.
dwendell
Member
- Discussion starter
- #26
Although I'm not totally discounting the possibility that the sidecar is the issue, as I said before, I know I'm not the only one who has attached a hack to an R18. And none of those other owners have expressed any issues. All we can do is wait and see.
Personally, I tend to think that there may be an issue with the alignment of the transmission and the driveshaft that tends to be exacerbated by the sidecar. We can only wait and see...........
Only Big Poodles
Member
Sounds like a plan. Will be waiting to hear how it all goes.
I wish you smooth sailing and no further problems once this next fix happens!
Best of luck.
I wish you smooth sailing and no further problems once this next fix happens!
Best of luck.
D
Deleted member 939
Guest
Sorry to hear of your situation.I plan on adding a side car and will be following your posts .
Hope for the Best
D
Deleted member 939
Guest
I can't see how the sidecar is causing this.I think the bike's specs allows you to carry around 435 pounds of weight.Besides the R18 Dragster with N2O really rips.Not sure if they are using a stock oem transmission.
Hope the Best 4 U
dwendell
Member
- Discussion starter
- #30
(Hopefully) Final post to update the transmission saga: After dealing with BMW NA since Sept. 20th, and going back and forth with them over my request that they buy back the bike and replace it, which they declined to do -- I brought the rig home on Dec. 4th, and actually made it all the way home without another trans failure. Unfortunately it's either been raining hard or snowing ever since, so the rig hasn't been out again since bringing it home. I hope to rectify that this coming weekend since we're actually supposed to see that big bright ball in the sky for a few days.
There is a 3rd trans in the bike, supplied under warranty by BMW. However, getting to that point involved quite a bit of back and forth. I'm told that "tech experts" in Berlin attempted to duplicate the failures of the first two transmissions and they came to the conclusion that it was my fault -- ostensibly I was "riding the shift lever". As I told them, I've been riding motorcycles for 52 years, I've been a motorcycle safety Instructor for 34 years, and I'm currently the only Sidecar/Trike Chief Instructor Trainer in the U.S. And in that capacity I've ridden hundreds of makes and models. I think I know how to ride. And I did relate to BMW NA that I was insulted by their accusation.
The dealer showed me the torn apart 1st trans, and it was obvious that a pin on the shift dog had bent about 30 degrees and put a huge dent in the shift drum, which caused it to lock in place and wasn't allowing me to shift out of 4th gear. BMW NA tried to tell me that the pin had backed out, but it was pretty obvious that wasn't the case. It was still solidly in place, but was significantly bent. They were never willing to retract their statement that they think I caused the 2nd trans failure, and they did insist that the dealer "properly adjust" the newly installed (between the 1st and 2nd trans failures) heel-toe shifter to my foot, riding position, and riding gear before releasing the rig back to me.
However, here's the story on the 2nd trans failure from the dealer's perspective: Most BMW transmissions (when shipped as replacements for failed units) come to the dealership "dry". (No fluid) When the 2nd trans arrived at my dealer's place, it was full of fluid. The dealer assumed that this was the way things were supposed to be with the R18 trannys, because they'd never done one before. Immediately upon my first ride with that new trans installed (last August) there was an audible whistling noise coming from the area of the transmission, that even the dealer noted was present. After that trans failed in less than 28 miles, the thought was that when the transmissions are built they fill them with relatively inexpensive fluid, run them through all the gears to make sure everything works, then drain that fluid before shipping the trans out. The dealer believed that someone might have made a mistake and left that "test fluid" in there before shipping my 2nd trans, and since that "test fluid" was never meant to be used under load, that's what led to the 2nd transmission failing as there were metal fragments throughout the entire trans due to parts literally exploding inside the case. However, BMW NA denied the use of anything other than factory spec trans fluid when testing new transmissions at the factory, but did admit that the unit should have been shipped dry rather than full. (NOTE: When the 3rd trans finally arrived it was dry.)
After LOTS of back and forth with BMW NA and the dealer, and the dealer's area rep; BMW NA authorized a 3rd trans install, and threw in some nice financial incentives in an effort to make me happy with the fact that my brand new R18 spent the entire summer riding season in the shop. Hopefully everything will work as promised from this point on.
There is a 3rd trans in the bike, supplied under warranty by BMW. However, getting to that point involved quite a bit of back and forth. I'm told that "tech experts" in Berlin attempted to duplicate the failures of the first two transmissions and they came to the conclusion that it was my fault -- ostensibly I was "riding the shift lever". As I told them, I've been riding motorcycles for 52 years, I've been a motorcycle safety Instructor for 34 years, and I'm currently the only Sidecar/Trike Chief Instructor Trainer in the U.S. And in that capacity I've ridden hundreds of makes and models. I think I know how to ride. And I did relate to BMW NA that I was insulted by their accusation.
The dealer showed me the torn apart 1st trans, and it was obvious that a pin on the shift dog had bent about 30 degrees and put a huge dent in the shift drum, which caused it to lock in place and wasn't allowing me to shift out of 4th gear. BMW NA tried to tell me that the pin had backed out, but it was pretty obvious that wasn't the case. It was still solidly in place, but was significantly bent. They were never willing to retract their statement that they think I caused the 2nd trans failure, and they did insist that the dealer "properly adjust" the newly installed (between the 1st and 2nd trans failures) heel-toe shifter to my foot, riding position, and riding gear before releasing the rig back to me.
However, here's the story on the 2nd trans failure from the dealer's perspective: Most BMW transmissions (when shipped as replacements for failed units) come to the dealership "dry". (No fluid) When the 2nd trans arrived at my dealer's place, it was full of fluid. The dealer assumed that this was the way things were supposed to be with the R18 trannys, because they'd never done one before. Immediately upon my first ride with that new trans installed (last August) there was an audible whistling noise coming from the area of the transmission, that even the dealer noted was present. After that trans failed in less than 28 miles, the thought was that when the transmissions are built they fill them with relatively inexpensive fluid, run them through all the gears to make sure everything works, then drain that fluid before shipping the trans out. The dealer believed that someone might have made a mistake and left that "test fluid" in there before shipping my 2nd trans, and since that "test fluid" was never meant to be used under load, that's what led to the 2nd transmission failing as there were metal fragments throughout the entire trans due to parts literally exploding inside the case. However, BMW NA denied the use of anything other than factory spec trans fluid when testing new transmissions at the factory, but did admit that the unit should have been shipped dry rather than full. (NOTE: When the 3rd trans finally arrived it was dry.)
After LOTS of back and forth with BMW NA and the dealer, and the dealer's area rep; BMW NA authorized a 3rd trans install, and threw in some nice financial incentives in an effort to make me happy with the fact that my brand new R18 spent the entire summer riding season in the shop. Hopefully everything will work as promised from this point on.
D
Deleted member 939
Guest
I had a Hannigan side car installed on my R18C.Love it and have zero issues with the trans.Hope you have a great 2022 year riding your R18.
Glad things got sorted out for you.
Only Big Poodles
Member
Time for some good luck!
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2021
- Messages
- 160
- Location
- Maastricht, The Netherlands
- Bike
- R26, R27, R45, R18 classic
Horrible story !!
Cripes, what an ordeal. I love that you could look them in the eye and say, no, I know how to ride, this wasn't my fault, and that you have the cred to back that up. Keep on em Dwendell!
Adrian R
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2021
- Messages
- 443
- Location
- Far north Chicago suburbs
- Bike
- 2014 Honda Valkyrie 1800, 2006 Yamaha Warrior 1700
Troubling...getting ready to buy a Classic...then I see something like this and I pause...NEVER had a single issue with Hondas I've owned since 1975! I can only assume the sidecar created the issue... Man if my new bike blew a transmission I'd be PISSED!!
D
Deleted member 939
Guest
This is the only R18 I have heard of with a trans issue.The Roland Sands Drag bike with NOS/boost literally shakes the rear end sideways reving the engine.They are running a stock trans.Also,My R18C with 12,000 miles has a sidecar.No issues, none and I have the BT moto tune.She pills like a freight train.
Hope that is welcome info for you.
BeerMe
Member
Thanks for that R18C. That helps quite a lot as I’m getting a Hannigan side car as well. One of the many valuable attributes of this forum!
D
Deleted member 939
Guest
I have 14,000 on my R18C w/the Hannigan sidecar.No issues.Sux you had to go thru that but,Glad the saga has ended
ElJeffe
New member
This happend to me on Friday shifting into fifth, luckily I could down shift and rode it 1 mile home but sounded like a rock crusher 1700 miles on it. Waiting to hear from the dealer. Hoping they replace whole transmission and not try to repair it. 21 R18TC. No side car.