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Downshift issue, as in...there is NO downshift!

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Keehn

Keehn

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2022 R18 Transcontinental, 2004 r1150RT, 2003 R1200CL
Hello all.

So, I'm having my first mechanical issue with Alcina, and it concerns transmission shifting.
I just got back from an afternoon ride, limping home in 6th gear. No matter how hard I pressed, the downshift fork REFUSED to move the gears down! I even used the useless tool kit and loosened the locknut on the shifter mechanism, hoping that it was as simple as the downshift lever wasn't fully engaging the fork. No joy.

Interesting enough, upshift was no problem, with me being able to positively engage the upshift fork all the way to 6th. However, downshift didn't have any feeling of engagement.

Has anyone else experienced this issue? I've searched "downshift" here and can't find any threads on the subject.

Edit: Also, I did use my reverse gear just prior to this no downshift issue. However, I did the normal rock the bike forward to ensure full disengagement of the gear before I set off.

Thanks!

Mike
 
Update:

I WAS able to finally downshift after Alcina sat for a while. However, it was a struggle to get her down in gears, and I had to have the engine running, slowly letting off the clutch to let each gear disengage and downshift.

Also, it sounds like something is rattling in the gearbox when I let go of the clutch handle. I'm suspecting this may be a warranty fix/replacement.

Again, anybody else experience something similar?

Mike
 
Oooof ... that does not sound good ... sounds like something let go ... really sorry to hear that, I hope that you are still under warranty!!!

Edit: Behind the accessory plug panel is the fill plug for the transmission oil .. it has a magnet on it, you can pull that one without having to worry about oil spilling and you could see if you have metal on the magnet ...
Screenshot 2024-05-16 at 16.49.53.png

... still would send it to the shop ... but no metal shavings could mean .. not so bad ... but that is just a guess ...
 
Ulrich said:
Oooof ... that does not sound good ... sounds like something let go ... really sorry to hear that, I hope that you are still under warranty!!!

Edit: Behind the accessory plug panel is the fill plug for the transmission oil .. it has a magnet on it, you can pull that one without having to worry about oil spilling and you could see if you have metal on the magnet ...
View attachment 14457

... still would send it to the shop ... but no metal shavings could mean .. not so bad ... but that is just a guess ...
Click to expand...
Ulrich, I was planning on pulling the plug and seeing if metal shards are on the magnet; you and I think alike ;)

What sucks is currently, I'm working on our 1994 Chevy B30 "class b" RV, getting her ready for a summer trip....and she's the only car we have with a proper class-3 hitch...

Alcina will have to sit for a hot minute while I expedite repairs on "Queen B" (the RV).

Mike
 
Keehn said:
Ulrich, I was planning on pulling the plug and seeing if metal shards are on the magnet; you and I think alike ;)

What sucks is currently, I'm working on our 1994 Chevy B30 "class b" RV, getting her ready for a summer trip....and she's the only car we have with a proper class-3 hitch...

Alcina will have to sit for a hot minute while I expedite repairs on "Queen B" (the RV).

Mike
Click to expand...
I would make a call to your dealer anyway to register the issue now and book an appointment in a few weeks time for investigation. Then, if warranty work is required you can demonstrate you didn’t sit on the problem and made contact as soon as reasonably practicable. Also it means when you drop your bike off they can crack on with it because it’s booked in, no unnecessary delays. My dealer has about a 4 week wait because it gets busy summertime.
 
How about the BMW Roadside assistance, isn't that covered under the warranty; where, they'll come by and pick up your bike and take her to the service shop?

Technically speaking, the bike is stranded due to "some" failure.
 
Update to Alcina:

She's FIXED! I also took advantage of the free (under warranty) BMW Roadside assistance to have her towed to Bob's Motorcycles. The reason for the LONG delay was, Bob's was doing fleet maintenance to police motorcycles, and they couldn't get me in until after they were done. On top of that, the family and I took a cross-country trip for the past month; we got back just this past weekend.

While she was able to get the spline lube recall done (I was surprised to learn that the TC models were also impacted by this, I thought it was the first year "pure" models), there's still no ETA on the headlight recall.

As for the shifting problem???

It. Was. A. Missing. Circlip!!!! :oops:

Specifically, this one:

Lock Ring.webp

The absence of the circlip allowed the selector shaft to "float" in and out of the transmission, thus downshifts while the oil was hot couldn't happen unless the shaft was physically pushed back in. I assume the hot oil/air pressure acted as a low-pressure hydraulic action on the shaft, which is why the shaft properly sat in its tunnel when cold, but pushed out when hot.

From how the microfiche appears, the circlip sits behind the shaft seal, meaning there's no way I would have know its existence if I didn't first consult said microfiche. The dealer was curious if I had done any work on my bike that would have involved this. I told them no, as I don't do mechanical work while warranties are in effect.

Additionally, the back and forth motion of the selector shaft allowed transmission fluid to seep out. They did a full drain/refill at no cost, as part of warranty coverage.

So, the TL;dr here is that Alcina never had a selector shaft circlip installed from the factory, given that the shaft seal sits in front of it. There's no other explanation for the absence of this part. It took a long time for her repair, but I'm glad to have the girl back.

Mike
 
Keehn said:
Update to Alcina:

She's FIXED! I also took advantage of the free (under warranty) BMW Roadside assistance to have her towed to Bob's Motorcycles. The reason for the LONG delay was, Bob's was doing fleet maintenance to police motorcycles, and they couldn't get me in until after they were done. On top of that, the family and I took a cross-country trip for the past month; we got back just this past weekend.

While she was able to get the spline lube recall done (I was surprised to learn that the TC models were also impacted by this, I thought it was the first year "pure" models), there's still no ETA on the headlight recall.

As for the shifting problem???

It. Was. A. Missing. Circlip!!!! :oops:

Specifically, this one:

View attachment 15601

The absence of the circlip allowed the selector shaft to "float" in and out of the transmission, thus downshifts while the oil was hot couldn't happen unless the shaft was physically pushed back in. I assume the hot oil/air pressure acted as a low-pressure hydraulic action on the shaft, which is why the shaft properly sat in its tunnel when cold, but pushed out when hot.

From how the microfiche appears, the circlip sits behind the shaft seal, meaning there's no way I would have know its existence if I didn't first consult said microfiche. The dealer was curious if I had done any work on my bike that would have involved this. I told them no, as I don't do mechanical work while warranties are in effect.

Additionally, the back and forth motion of the selector shaft allowed transmission fluid to seep out. They did a full drain/refill at no cost, as part of warranty coverage.

So, the TL;dr here is that Alcina never had a selector shaft circlip installed from the factory, given that the shaft seal sits in front of it. There's no other explanation for the absence of this part. It took a long time for her repair, but I'm glad to have the girl back.

Mike
Click to expand...
Glad to hear it was sorted out, a little concerning though...

What year TC and how many miles does Alcina have on her..?
 
Star-Lord said:
Glad to hear it was sorted out, a little concerning though...

What year TC and how many miles does Alcina have on her..?
Click to expand...
2022 R18 first edition Transcontinental.

1,766 miles right now.

Mike
 
Keehn said:
Update to Alcina:

She's FIXED! I also took advantage of the free (under warranty) BMW Roadside assistance to have her towed to Bob's Motorcycles. The reason for the LONG delay was, Bob's was doing fleet maintenance to police motorcycles, and they couldn't get me in until after they were done. On top of that, the family and I took a cross-country trip for the past month; we got back just this past weekend.

While she was able to get the spline lube recall done (I was surprised to learn that the TC models were also impacted by this, I thought it was the first year "pure" models), there's still no ETA on the headlight recall.

As for the shifting problem???

It. Was. A. Missing. Circlip!!!! :oops:

Specifically, this one:

View attachment 15601

The absence of the circlip allowed the selector shaft to "float" in and out of the transmission, thus downshifts while the oil was hot couldn't happen unless the shaft was physically pushed back in. I assume the hot oil/air pressure acted as a low-pressure hydraulic action on the shaft, which is why the shaft properly sat in its tunnel when cold, but pushed out when hot.

From how the microfiche appears, the circlip sits behind the shaft seal, meaning there's no way I would have know its existence if I didn't first consult said microfiche. The dealer was curious if I had done any work on my bike that would have involved this. I told them no, as I don't do mechanical work while warranties are in effect.

Additionally, the back and forth motion of the selector shaft allowed transmission fluid to seep out. They did a full drain/refill at no cost, as part of warranty coverage.

So, the TL;dr here is that Alcina never had a selector shaft circlip installed from the factory, given that the shaft seal sits in front of it. There's no other explanation for the absence of this part. It took a long time for her repair, but I'm glad to have the girl back.

Mike
Click to expand...
Wow .. small part BIG impact! .. I am glad it was something without deeper impact.
 
Star-Lord said:
Yikes... I have a FE 2022 Model B.....I hope all of the parts were installed on my bike...
Click to expand...
Scott, *ahem* Star Lord.

Try moving your selector shaft in and out of the transmission. If it doesn't move, you should be okay. If the shaft is moving in and out, the area around the seal will likely be wet with oil, like mine was.

I just never imagined I was riding a brand new motorcycle with a missing circlip. Makes me wonder if there's anything else missing....

Mike
 
My gear shifter actually has a little play on it, where I can rattle it in and out; does the picture below highlight (∆) the spline where the toe-heal shifter attaches?

Screenshot_20240815-050632.webp
 
Star-Lord said:
My gear shifter actually has a little play on it, where I can rattle it in and out; does the picture below highlight (∆) the spline where the toe-heal shifter attaches?

View attachment 15606
Click to expand...
Yes, this is where the gear shifter linkage mates outside the transmission case.

If we HAD a service manual, I'd be able to check how much end play deflection is acceptable, but...???? 🤷‍♂️

From my understanding of the microfiche image, it appears that the inner lip of the shaft (facing outwards) is what butts up against the circlip, and that's all that holds the shaft in place. The inner portion of the shaft would be held by the inner shifting roll or shifting arm, based on another microfiche, but I can't tell which.

Best bet would be to pull the shaft seal and verify that the circlip is installed if you are curious. I don't know of non-destructive ways to remove shaft seals, so price that into your check.

Mike
 
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