China getting into the big bike market
- Thread starter Puck
- Start date
kate_brett
Active member
Generic - Goldwing / K1600 …..add any other brand.
Randy Kahn
Active member
All depends on the quality of construction and if there are any issues or problems with the bike. If it's well done and very reliable, it will sell well....why not!
Berardi3
Active member
China Cheap stuff
Randy Kahn
Active member
Maybe, but some of the great bikes have come from Asia, Japan of course, that also in the beginning was know for making junk.
widu13
Active member
When cheap Chinese bikes first appeared in the UK about 25 yrs ago, they had a reputation for being poor quality and for being unreliable with parts being very hard to source. My mind changed about 20 yrs ago when I bought a "Hongdo" CG125 which as you might have guessed 
was a clone of a Honda CG125, for my wife to learn on.
It cost me £300 delivered in a crate (a good price even then) which I had to put together. Well it never missed a beat in the 2 yrs that we had it and the reproduction was so close that standard Honda parts fitted it. It's fair to say that it changed my view. At the time I would have placed that fit and finish to about 20-15 yrs behind the times.
From what I have seen recently the really cheap brands have narrowed that gap to 8-5 yrs and the more expensive brands which sell mainstream motorcycles are on par with the rest or just a couple of years behind. In fact they are introducing some tech at much lower price points which surpasses current mainstream brands. Only an idiot would dismiss them out of hand without looking at one if they had a need for a particular type of bike.
https://cfmoto-motorcycle.eu/uk/en/motorcycles/multi-function-touring/800mt-sport
was a clone of a Honda CG125, for my wife to learn on.It cost me £300 delivered in a crate (a good price even then) which I had to put together. Well it never missed a beat in the 2 yrs that we had it and the reproduction was so close that standard Honda parts fitted it. It's fair to say that it changed my view. At the time I would have placed that fit and finish to about 20-15 yrs behind the times.
From what I have seen recently the really cheap brands have narrowed that gap to 8-5 yrs and the more expensive brands which sell mainstream motorcycles are on par with the rest or just a couple of years behind. In fact they are introducing some tech at much lower price points which surpasses current mainstream brands. Only an idiot would dismiss them out of hand without looking at one if they had a need for a particular type of bike.
https://cfmoto-motorcycle.eu/uk/en/motorcycles/multi-function-touring/800mt-sport
Last edited:
bobf4s
New member
that flat 8 catches my eye .... could put that in a custom bike .
Randy Kahn
Active member
I don't know if I've ever seen a bike made in China here in Los Angeles. They may have imported some, but unless I walked by one at a bike hangout or on the road I wouldn't know. I do know there are huge bike "cultures" in Asia, as I have bought some very high quality after market parts for my R9T from them.When cheap Chinese bikes first appeared in the UK about 25 yrs ago, they had a reputation for being poor quality and for being unreliable with parts being very hard to source. My mind changed about 20 yrs ago when I bought a "Hongdo" CG125 which as you might have guessed
It cost me £300 delivered in a crate (a good price even then) which I had to put together. Well it never missed a beat in the 2 yrs that we had it and the reproduction was so close that standard Honda parts fitted it. It's fair to say that it changed my view. At the time I would have placed that fit and finish to about 20-15 yrs behind the times.
From what I have seen recently the really cheap brands have narrowed that gap to 8-5 yrs and the more expensive brands which sell mainstream motorcycles are on par with the rest or just a couple of years behind. In fact they are introducing some tech at much lower price points which surpasses current mainstream brands. Only an idiot would dismiss them out of hand wihout looking at one if they had a need for a particular type of bike.
https://cfmoto-motorcycle.eu/uk/en/motorcycles/multi-function-touring/800mt-sport
It stands to reason that if a company in China WANTED to produce a high quality machine they could. They normally just knock off something that already exists in the market. They already do that big time in the fashion industry. In any event no big deal either way....I'm more concerned that Motorrad gets and keeps it's shit together....
PistolPeteSTL
Active member
A boxer 8 sounds like an engine that could be an experience. Whether the bike is up to modern standards of quality is a crap shoot, but that engine design sounds like a good time.
Randy Kahn
Active member
IF Motorrad wanted to, it could easily use the R18 1800cc motor to build out a "superbike". I don't think the compression is high on this motor leaving the shop. With some domed pistons, more aggressive cams, tuned exhaust, they could easily get another 25-35 lbs of torque or more out of this build without making the bike unreliable. I think the trans and brakes could handle it, if not they could be beefed up.
In time we might see kits to accomplish this aftermarket. Just like Harley has it's stage I, stage II.et. upgrades. There are also companies like S&S, Jims, et, that make an entire package to retrofit your stock motor for more performance.
If I was running Motorrad, I would be setting up an entire line of AFFORDABLE performance mods for your R18. While I see a lot of guys on here happy with their bikes, some are not. After riding them a bit they are bored
and somewhat frustrated. We also see Harley constantly innovating.
If you own an R18....which you obviously do or you wouldn't be reading this....what do you have to look forward to besides a new place to eat, or the wife deciding to go visit her sister for a week???
Imagine real performance upgrade done at the dealer, that doesn't void your warranty for say $1995 complete WITH a re map that turns old Bessie into a hot Hooker!!
I don't think the "big boxer" will ever be kitted out on a superbike for two major reasons:
They use pushrod valves, and there is no counterbalancer on the crankshaft.
Pushrod valves are simply not designed to handle the high RPM demands that overhead cam engines can. Rather, pushrods like to stay in lower RPMs and, in high RPM ranges, "valve float" can occur.
Overhead cam engines OTOH, solve this problem by putting the cam lobe directly in contact with the valve lifter assembly, as opposed to the pushrod being the intermediary. This reduces the amount of reciprocating mass, thus avoiding the valve float issue.
The absence of a counterbalancer also means that at high RPMs, the engine could literally, tear itself apart from the inherent imbalance of boxer engines. This is why inline engines are preferred for high-rpm racing applications, as the design avoids the need for counterbalancers.
Mike
Randy Kahn
Active member
Aren't Harley's using pushrods in the same fashion? Except the cyclinders are inline?
You'd have to be more specific, as I'm unfamiliar with HD engines.
And, is the engine you're mentioning in a "superbike"?
Mike
Randy Kahn
Active member
No, not a super bike, Harley's use pushrods, cams, lifters, et....but can be modified with domed pistons, more aggressive cams, advanced timing, better headers, et...all the things it seems like you could do to an R18 motor.
Well...sure
But, even with all the enhancements the "big boxer" can receive, so long as it remains a pushrod design, it will never enter "superbike" status.
When you say "superbike", I think of the Hayabusa, Panagale, Ninja H2R, S1100RR and others.
Heck, the big boxer could even get a "hemi" design to the head and pistons, but it remains limited by its pushrods and lack of counter balancer.
I think the big boxer, as it sits today, remains relegated to a low-RPM but high torque engine. An aside: my transmission recently refused to shift down from 6th gear. As a result, I had to limp Alcina home by feathering the clutch in city streets. Even with the severe 6th gear handicap, the engine performed MUCH better from stop to go than I experienced on any other motorcycle, courtesy of its low-end torque. I certainly don't recommend it, but these R18's CAN use only 6th gear...provided that you think a clutch disc should be replaced each oil change
.Mike
Randy Kahn
Active member
My goal would be to add 25-35ft. lbs of torque. I think that could be accomplished without over stressing the trans and brakes. And then a good remap. And still have the torque curve max out at 3800 rpms. more or less.Well...sure
But, even with all the enhancements the "big boxer" can receive, so long as it remains a pushrod design, it will never enter "superbike" status.
When you say "superbike", I think of the Hayabusa, Panagale, Ninja H2R, S1100RR and others.
Heck, the big boxer could even get a "hemi" design to the head and pistons, but it remains limited by its pushrods and lack of counter balancer.
I think the big boxer, as it sits today, remains relegated to a low-RPM but high torque engine. An aside: my transmission recently refused to shift down from 6th gear. As a result, I had to limp Alcina home by feathering the clutch in city streets. Even with the severe 6th gear handicap, the engine performed MUCH better from stop to go than I experienced on any other motorcycle, courtesy of its low-end torque. I certainly don't recommend it, but these R18's CAN use only 6th gear...provided that you think a clutch disc should be replaced each oil change
Mike
Sounds badass to me!
Holy Cow! Put that engine in a homebuilt airplane!
Ulrich
Well-known member
What a Behemoth !!! Holy $hit, flat 8 ... probably smooth as silk ... interesting front end design ... nevertheless to bulky for my taste
They lifted that look from the Yamaha Transcontinental. It looks like a combination of the Transcontinental and Indian Challenger.What a Behemoth !!! Holy $hit, flat 8 ... probably smooth as silk ... interesting front end design ... nevertheless to bulky for my taste
Looks good IMHO.